I have a question (Anne, give John a nudge!)
Maybe everyone in the whole world knows this, except me. If so, apologies for being stoopid.
Here goes:
What is it about the writers of the Old Testament that means we should either believe what they wrote or follow any of the advice contained therein?
I hope that question makes sense - and I do not mean to imply any criticism of the OT or its writers. I would just like to know the answer to the question (in the same way as I like to know the qualifications and credentials of my doctor or health visitor before I take their advice etc.)
And whilst we're on the subject of the bible: what is one to make of:
a) the bits in the NT where people follow advice that comes to them in dreams (e.g. where the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream).
And
b) the bits that begin: "and the Lord spoke to him and said...."?
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6 comments:
First - John subscribes to you anyway, so I don't need to nudge him.
Second - there was a fascinating program by Robert Somethingorother a while ago about this - hmmm - not much use there, am I? Certainly the first five books weren't all written by Moses as some people claim.
Still, John will remember ;-)
It's OK, I'm here anyway :-)
FWIW, here's what I think. We take these writers seriously because other people did. That is, these writings have been attested as being "God-breathed" by the Church, and so we believe them to be so. It sounds a bit circular, and it is - the Bible tells us what the Church is and the Church tells us what the Bible is. The reason for this is that the Christian faith isn't about the book. It's about the person of Jesus. The book is a witness to that Person, and is only meaningful when read in that context. So, to someone who follows Jesus, the Bible is the book that is agreed by the other followers of Jesus to be the witness to Him. It's the book that contains the story of God's progressive self-revelation to humanity, which culminates in Christ.
The "should we follow their advice" part is trickier, because it depends how one reads the OT. If we try and use it as a rule book ("it says that shellfish are unclean, so I'll never eat prawn cocktail") then we'll run into problems. The crucial thing is to realise what sort of writing we're reading. Parts are history, recounting events. Thus, they're unlikely to contain direct advice and more likely to be commentary on someone else's choices. Parts are poetry, which can inspire us but again won't offer direct advice. Parts are law, which again isn't advice. That last one might sound odd but, for Christians, the OT law isn't something to be followed slavishly. Jesus said that the whole of the Law and the Prophets was summed up in the two simple injunctions "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength. And love your neighbour as yourself." So, when we read the Law, we can reasonably view it as one way to work out what those two deceptively simple commands might mean.
Dreams, I don't know. Certainly, we can say that these people believe that God spoke to them in that way - they had a dream in which it happened. And their belief was borne out by events. This whole "God speaking" thing is difficult. Not because it doesn't happen (I believe) but because it happens differently for everyone. Some people do really seem to hear God speaking to them, loud and clear. Most of us don't get that.
HTH!
pax et bonum
Thank you very much for this. It's a really helpful answer. Have you considered writing a book for those who are interested in exploring these things?
You have given me food for thought - I will probably have yet more questions on all of this. I shall go away and ponder.
But for now, thank you thank you thank you.
Awesome answer John! I applaud the wonderful way that you pulled forth the logic, and reality of reading the OT. I give you a standing applause!
As for dreams, It is possible that God can "speak" to us in our sleep. Usually our brain gives off Alpha waves, but when we are dreaming, meditating, or (important) praying our brain gives off Beta waves. Isn't that interesting? I find it so. There has been more than once when I felt awakened within a silly dream to have my soul filled with the presence of God.. almost like I could reach out and touch him as I could my sleeping husband beside me. The silly dream material slipped away, and all that was left was the wonderful feeling of being one with the One Who loves me.
Yep.. I believe that Joseph was warned in a dream, and that Pilate's wife learned about the Messiah in a dream.. and all the other mentions of dreams in the bible.
Context is important, Ruth. Some of the "law" was ceremonial law for conduct of members of the Jewism religion. Some of the "law" is about human conduct in any condition. Some of the "law" is a part of guidance given to a theocratic government. Some of the "law" is rules for health and welfare of people before science told them the same things.
John has the right of it, anyhow!
A couple more things to add. As for the dreams, remember that there was no Bible in OT times. God spoke to people through other means, one of them being through prophetic dreams. These prophesies always came true, so that is why they were taken so seriously as God Himself spoke to them this way. In the Book of Revelation, those dreams are taken seriously because, just as all the propehsies of the OT dreams were fulfilled, so will be the visions in Revelation. Pretty scary stuff, so we'd better be ready!
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